Slightly dissapointed.

[Tenorking]

I find that the DVD series is almost useless to me, because most of the information has already been posted on youtube, and I'm a far enough advanced musician to skip over the elementary portion of it.

I believe that this is great for people who are just beginning, because it really expounds up concepts that I learned years ago.

It seems to hammer too much of the same idea though. I don't think that it's very necessary to flip around the book finding the right chord to every single melody. After a few times, the musicians should be able to understand this. What I was personally looking for in the DVD's, was how to use these harmonies stylistically and rhythmically.

What good is knowing the chord voicings and the theory without a definitive method of putting it in motion?

I feel as though I will be able to use this to better my already aged playing, but how will beginners fare?

[CustomerService]

That is not the purpose of he DVDs. The DVDs strictly give examples of how to use the written material. Not everbody has a musical background. They are simple a visual of how to apply material in the books.

The DVDs are not even meant to be used alone, they are useless without the written material.

This is not a course about rhythm, style, or timing, it is strictly harmony and exposing you to unique voicings and a technique to apply the voicings.

The DVDs will bridge the gap and allow somebody with only weeks of musical experience to sound like and create voicings that are only played by individuals with years of experience.

Just last week I had somebody who never played a keyboard in their life begin to write and create music.

If you want style and rhythm, etc.. You can get Hear and Play or GospelKeybords, then you can just memorize every chord and movement you see of the songs that they choose.

[Tenorking]

I understand that these books are designed for nothing but the explanation of the written material, that this DVD is not meant to be used alone and that this is not a course about rhythm, style, or timing, but I still think that it would be something worth considering to provide tips and tricks to the people recieving this course on how to really SHAPE these harmonic structures. I think that the final goal of this course is to use these chord voicings to make a genuine piece of music or arrangement of your favorite tune! It is not that hard to say "make sure that you listen to your favorite gospel, or jazz pianists while you study this!" or "watch the way I play this lick!" I just don't believe that someone should be labeled a "show off" for providing the student with a model. Every current musician on this earth had someone to model after or else they would not be a quarter of the musician that they are today.

Also, I disagree with your last statement, because this statement sounds like an attack on other gospel piano methods. Although these courses are not the best ways of learning the technicalities of gospel music, they do however serve a purpose and I believe that this purpose is to create a relationship between the avid music lover and contemporary gospel/jazz harmony. Also, I don't see a problem with memorizing how other people play chords for the songs that they choose, because this is how so many gospel keyboardists, instrumentalists, and just musicians in general have learned to play. Just because someone takes an idea from someone else, does not mean that said person is not an individual. All of these musical ideas help mold the musician into an individual. My piano teacher is incredible, but where would she be without studying Bach or Mozart? Most people just want a tune under their fingers (instant gratification), but I think that the knowledge of the mechanics of these chord voicings AND basic understanding of how to stylize these chords would make this system 100% more marketable. I would rather not sound like and create voicings that are only played by individuals with years of experience, but rather would I want to sound like and create music that are only played by musicians with years of experience.

[Greg]

Hi TenorKing
 You have hit the nail on the head with your last statement:

" Most people just want a tune under their fingers (instant gratification), but I think that the knowledge of the mechanics of these chord voicings AND basic understanding of how to stylize these chords would make this system 100% more marketable. I would rather not sound like and create voicings that are only played by individuals with years of experience, but rather would I want to sound like and create music that are only played by musicians with years of experience."

We provide the means to give an individual the seemingly "instant gratification" of using creative and advanced voicings in songs that they have selected. The voicings in this course are not just voicings that are played by experienced musicsians, but I can say that many of them have never been played before by anybody. The voicings in this course are analyzed and gererated by our sophisticated proprietary computer algorithms.

I am not attacking other piano methods but this course was created out of frustration on what we saw on the market. We have seen the majority of DVDs/course material out on the market and then again most of it followed the same theme of "watch me play," and learn the song I just played. In our opinion that provides very little real "instructional" value. All we have done is turned that metaphor around by allowing an individuual to play the songs that they have selected and give them advanced voicings to select from so that what they create is their own, and has never ever been played before. We have left the door completely open for them to freely create.

I hope that you are now able to create your own unique sound to distinguish you from everybody else out there.

My teacher was a student of the great Art Tatum and has played with many of the greats, i.e Oscar Peterson, Duke Ellington, etc.  Througout all my years with him he never played for me (no showing off); and that was of the greatest value. I had to work at it to grasp all of the knowledge. He would write the lesson instuctions and I have to go and work it out. This same thing happens for example with olympic trainers. The Olympic Skaters trainer/coach does not skate for the student; They simply provide instructions.
   Enjoy 

[Tenorking]

Just for clarification, I'm not attacking this course! :] I'm in love with it to the point that I want to be involved and provide feedback that you may or may not find useful. What you're saying makes more sense, but I still think that my idea in conjunction with what the purpose of the DVD's are designed to do is something to be mindful of, because the way that your teacher taught you may or may not be the right way to teach someone else (consideration of learning styles, multiple intelligences). I think that people can most certainly develop into distinguished musicians (create their own color/flavor), and stand out from their competitors in more ways than one. Listening to recordings, and watching other keyboardists is so crucial to being able to play well, be in style with the genre, and to also have a deep connection and understanding of these harmonies. By also utilizing licks and different approaches to jazz/gospel/contemporary voicings, allows the musician to assay their stance in music and to better emotionally associate with these voicings (not only because they are playing these voicings but they are also hearing in a much different contexual setting).

:] That is all.

[yohon]

The application of piano/keyboard techniques (runs, arpeggios or playing the chords melodically, grace notes, legato, staccato, etc.) seems to be your area of concern.  Basically, how to ARTICULATE or embellish the voicings in this course. 

Creating music is just that... timing and everything.  I agree, there is no instruction in copying a song, note-for-note.  Yes, I've learned a new song. But NEVER was able to UTILIZE those ideas to create my OWN compositions or re-harmonize the tune as I see fit.  Once I had the song down to a tee (copying their songs), I got bored with it.  Plus I had no satisfaction because I didn't create it. My thing was, how could I come up with my own progressions/songs.  Those other courses didn't allow me that luxury.  The other courses mentioned "gives you a fish".  This course teaches you "HOW TO FISH"!!!  They GIVE you songs, progressions, etc., and tell you that this chord usually moves to this other chord.  Without explaining why.  This course teaches you HOW you can move anywhere you want.  For those who want to learn a song as it's written... note for note, then those courses are fine.  But if you want to be able to FLIP that song (re-harmonize it) or even better CREATE your very own from scratch then this course is where it's at.

[Tenorking]

Everything you said was based off of your own experience, and does not employ the testimonies of people who have tried other methods. Also, what a fascinating descriptor of music! "Music is just that...timing and everything" 

"I agree, there is no instruction in copying a song, note-for-note.  Yes, I've learned a new song. But NEVER was able to UTILIZE those ideas to create my OWN compositions or re-harmonize the tune as I see fit.  Once I had the song down to a tee (copying their songs), I got bored with it.  Plus I had no satisfaction because I didn't create it."

There are people who CAN utilize those ideas, create their own compositions, and re-harmonize a tune as they see fit. 

"This course teaches you "HOW TO FISH"!!!  They GIVE you songs, progressions, etc., and tell you that this chord usually moves to this other chord.  Without explaining why.  This course teaches you HOW you can move anywhere you want.  For those who want to learn a song as it's written... note for note, then those courses are fine.  But if you want to be able to FLIP that song (re-harmonize it) or even better CREATE your very own from scratch then this course is where it's at."

Could not have put it better myself. :]

This course is superb.

[yohon]

There are people who CAN utilize those ideas, create their own compositions, and re-harmonize a tune as they see fit.

But you're not one of them; hence your SLIGHT DISAPPOINTMENT in not being able to "put it (chord voicing) in motion."

I also can't see how one can re-harmonize a song strictly by way of copying.  For example, I show you how to play a song.  You watch and duplicate.  Are you able to re-harmonize or play that song many different ways simply by watching me?  MAYBE, if you already knew the concept of re-harmonization?  Otherwise, you're confined to playing it MY way... the way I showed you. 

And many people learn hundreds of songs.  But, can they CREATE their own?  Performers (violinists, horns, pianists, etc.) in orchestras can play MANY of the great classics.  They know how to play complex melodies and rhythms these great classics require.  Take away the sheet music, and they're LOST!  So copying does not necessarily translate into utilizing those ideas to create your own compositions.  Again, those courses have their place.

Everything you said was based off of your own experience, and does not employ the testimonies of people who have tried other methods.

Let me tell you about my own experience.  Other courses gave me a few songs and no instruction.  Most of the time, not even full songs but certain movements to use.  Their demonstration goes something like this: "I usually use this chord to go from here to here, or sometimes I might do this.  OH... and the chords are D, Ab, Bb..." 

And this is throughout the whole dvd.  Yes, I'd learned some chords.  But I still could not create my own music.  Never explained why it works or how they came up with those progressions.  But they tell me to learn it in every key!?  Learn my scales and everything will eventually come. 

Well I'm glad SOMEBODY benefitted from this method because I sure didn't!

[Greg]

Let's clarify that you are talking about DVDs from other courses.
And with regard to your statement "that they expect you to learn the chords in all keys."

You see in my course "Mastering the Suspension" we explicitly tell you NOT to learn it in every key because there is a different technique to use to be able to play a song in any key without transposing.

Haviing to transpose to every key is not only a big task, but the result is not interesting. That is a pretty boring result of just a change in pitch from all the work of tranposing or learning the chord in every key.

It is possible to play a song in every single key without the old fashioned method of transposing!

 

[Tenorking]

Yohon-

You have missed the rationale of my post, and I lack the energy the explain.
I support this system 100%, and I have seen (in only three days) a vast imoprovment in my playing and hearing.
There is no reason to continue this worn  conversation, because I feel like we are beating a dead horse. (for lack of a better cliche)

I can tell you that my reasoning comes from a man named Mr. Alton Merrell (Almost Dr. Merrell) who I sang with last year on a Frank Sinatra themed concert.
He has his own method courses that operate in the same fashion that most of the ''big" gospel instructional videos work. Also! He's one of the latest blooming gospel stars currently working. I figure that though a performer may sometimes lack the ability to convey what they have learned to other people, this cat however, has it down! Merrell has ministered with gospel artists Kim Burrell, Israel Houghton, Martha Munizzi, Donnie McClurkin, Alvin Slaughter, Dorothy Norwood, LaShunn Pace, Rev. Timothy Wright, and Parkes Stewart. He has also been seen several times on the nationally televised Bobby Jones Gospel Show.

Mr. Merrell has also performed with jazz artists: Wynton Marsallis, Sean Jones, Benny Golson, Slide Hampton, James Moody, Phil Woods, Marvin Stamm, Maria Schneider, Ivan Lins, Kenny Burrell, Billy Pierrce, Conrad Herwig, Leslie Lewis, Frank Foster, Roger Humphries, and Jim Rupp. He
is currently a member of the Pittsburgh Jazz Orchestra under the diirection of Sean Jones and Mike Tomaro. Alton has also been a member and soloist with, the Cleveland Jazz Orchestra, Cleveland State Jazz Heritage Orchestra, Pittsburgh Concert Chorale, YSU All-Star Alumni Jazz Ensemble, Warren Philharmonic Orchestra, and the OMEA Intercollegiate All-Star Jazz Ensemble.

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